Porta on oil firing - bmp files

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Porta on oil firing - bmp files

Post by DaveLathrop57 on Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:03 pm


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Re: Porta on oil firing - bmp files

Post by Low_Water_Odom on Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:52 am

Very interesting stuff (as usual) from Ing. Porta. His papers always do a good job of describing the fundamental requirements for whatever system he is discussing.

I had tried to find out about Sonvico a few years ago without much luck. It's interesting that they use an electric pump to pump the oil to the burners. There must be a lot of details to the system that Porta did not cover; a couple that come to mind are how is the oil flow and steam flow coordinated and what do the burners themselves actually look like.

I did have a copy of a technical paper on the problems with the Sonico burner system on the Swiss and Austrian rack locomotives (not sure I still have it, but it's probably out there on the 'net someplace). IIRC, the locomotives experienced very loud "drumming" from the fireboxes under certain conditions, loud enough to make the drivers complain. After much research, they fitted what were essentially tuned mufflers (Helmholtz resonators) to the air intakes, which cured the problem.

Given that he prefers it over the Sonico system, it would be very interesting to know exactly what is fitted to 1816.

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Re: Porta on oil firing - bmp files

Post by DaveLathrop57 on Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:25 am

I'm particularly taken with the third paragraph in which he makes it clear that the whole sytem must be condiered as a system and properly designed and proportioned. I think that's the most prevalent problem with many coal to oil conversions on the road today.

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Re: Porta on oil firing - bmp files

Post by Overmod on Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:04 pm

We should not forget that EVERY significant part of a steam locomotive needs to be considered as a system and properly co-designed and proportioned.

I have been proceeding under the tacit assumption that any discussions of burner tech, geometry, secondary air, etc. were all at the idea stage, and would be interconnected proportionally and correctly when entering design stage. This is PARTICULARLY true of a continuous-combustion system with little or no implicit flameholding stability...

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Re: Porta on oil firing - bmp files

Post by DaveLathrop57 on Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:46 pm

Yes, we have to start somewhere and it seems that starting with considering each seperate thing first by building a wide section of ideas within each discipline provides the background perspective from which to start considering the whole. Most of us don't have advanced degrees (or even any engineering degree) to work from. Many have not widely read in less regionally common steam technology.....the more I consider my stage in life and the anticipated life span of any overhaul completed within the next few years, if done properly and not abused thereafter, us more experienced people won't be here to badger the guys who will be doing the next one. Leaving this body of thoughtful discussion and reference materials and including the younger people in the process as much as we can now is building for the future.

Dave

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